January 10, 2009

Barack Obama Lives in the Real World

I just returned from an extended trip during which I unexpectedly had virtually no access to the internet. But I'm not sure I would have blogged all that much even if I had been able to log on. With the war in Iraq essentially over (not because we abandoned our allies there to the wolves of al Qaeda but instead because the U.S. military defeated its enemies -- as history will undoubtedly record) and with a new president who is nothing at all like the man he appeared to be (instead, on both national security and the economy, he has assembled a team of advisors that reflects moderate conservative views rather than radical left wing views), my motivation to blog has dropped a bit. I mean, it's just one thing after another:

WASHINGTON (AP) — As President-elect Barack Obama assures intelligence officials that his complaints are with the Bush administration, not them, there are growing hints from Democratic Senate allies that spy agency veterans will not be prosecuted for past harsh interrogation and detainee policies. Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein told The Associated Press in an interview this week that there is a clear distinction between those who made the policies and those who carried them out.

Once again, we don't see any evidence of the left wing fanatic that Obama's rhetoric and his history suggested that we might be seeing right about now. Instead, he merely talks the talk:

WASHINGTON - President-elect Barack Obama said Friday his administration would not compromise its ideals to fight terrorism, adding at a press conference to announce his CIA and national intelligence nominees that he has told them to honor the Geneva Conventions.

"I was clear throughout this campaign and was clear throughout this transition that under my administration the United States does not torture," Obama said, when asked at the news conference whether he would continue the Bush administration's policy of harsh interrogation. "We will abide by the Geneva Conventions. We will uphold our highest ideals."

Of course, this is essentially Bush's position as well.

Text of order signed by President Bush on Feb. 7, 2002, outlining treatment of al-Qaida and Taliban detainees:
...
a. I accept the legal conclusion of the Department of Justice and determine that none of the provisions of Geneva apply to our conflict with al-Qaida in Afghanistan or elsewhere throughout the world because, among other reasons, al-Qaida is not a High Contracting Party to Geneva.

b. I accept the legal conclusion of the attorney general and the Department of Justice that I have the authority under the Constitution to suspend Geneva as between the United States and Afghanistan, but I decline to exercise that authority at this time. Accordingly, I determine that the provisions of Geneva will apply to our present conflict with the Taliban. I reserve the right to exercise the authority in this or future conflicts.

c. I also accept the legal conclusion of the Department of Justice and determine that common Article 3 of Geneva does not apply to either al-Qaida or Taliban detainees, because, among other reasons, the relevant conflicts are international in scope and common Article 3 applies only to "armed conflict not of an international character."

d. Based on the facts supplied by the Department of Defense and the recommendation of the Department of Justice, I determine that the Taliban detainees are unlawful combatants and, therefore, do not qualify as prisoners of war under Article 4 of Geneva. I note that, because Geneva does not apply to our conflict with al-Qaida, al-Qaida detainees also do not qualify as prisoners of war.

3. Of course, our values as a nation, values that we share with many nations in the world, call for us to treat detainees humanely, including those who are not legally entitled to such treatment. Our nation has been and will continue to be a strong supporter of Geneva and its principles. As a matter of policy, the United States Armed Forces shall continue to treat detainees humanely and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with military necessity, in a manner consistent with the principles of Geneva.
...
5. I hereby reaffirm the order previously issued by the secretary of defense to the United States Armed Forces requiring that the detainees be treated humanely and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with military necessity, in a manner consistent with the principles of Geneva.

The difference between this policy and the one announced by Obama appears to be that in those few cases where military necessity dictates harsh interrogation (e.g., to elicit time sensitive information from a high-level al Qaeda detainee that could save thousands of innocent lives), Barack Obama will allow the innocents to perish in order to uphold our ideals, where Bush would not. That's a legitimate stance even though I side with Bush (wretchedly evil non-defender of "social justice" that I am).

I feel sure that, soon, Obama will deal with an issue that no anti-torture hysteric ever addresses, namely, the harshest interrogation technique that should be allowed when seeking to elicit time-sensitive information from high-level al Qaeda detainees. People who choose to emote (not to think) believe that the whole debate is about "torture vs. no torture" or "inhumane treatment vs. humane treatment." Actually, that's what the irrelevant self-aggrandizing rhetoric is about. In the real world, you have the draw the line (how harsh is too harsh?). And despite all that he said during the campaign, Barack Obama appears to be living in the real world. This continues to amaze me, and it will probably cause me to blog less as time goes on. We'll see, I guess.

UPDATE: More evidence that Obama lives in the real world comes from his appointment of John Brennan as an advisor in the war on terror. Self-aggrandizing anti-torture activist Andrew Sullivan discusses Brennan like this when he was being considered as director of the CIA by the realist Barack Obama:

21 Nov 2008 11:48 am

No Way. No How. No Brennan.
...
The simple answer to the question - what length do we want to go? - is to abide by the rule of law. Why is that so hard to understand? And yet Brennan and Tenet didn't. They authorized clear torture sessions. Why is such a man even considered for the post under Obama? This man cannot end the taint of Bush-Cheney. He was Bush-Cheney. In fact, if Obama picks him, it will be a vindication of the kind of ambivalence and institutional moral cowardice that made America a torturing nation. It would be an unforgivable betrayal of his supporters and his ideals. It would be an acknowledgment that Tenet himself is not a war criminal, while the facts indisputably prove that he was.
...
The least we know is that Brennan is ambivalent about this. Ambivalence on this matter is unacceptable. We haven't fought for decency and reform and a return to American values for so long to be turned back now. We didn't work our butts off to elect Obama only to get Bush another four years at CIA. If Brennan emerges as the pick, those of us against the continuation of war crimes and the prosecution of war criminals will have to oppose him strenuously in the nomination process. We will, in fact, have to go to war with Obama before he even takes office.

To me, it's important to have presidential advisores who cause Andrew Sullivan to react like that. If every advisor received the Andrew Sullivan seal of approval, I start to worry. Fortunately for all of us, Barack Obama lives in the real world (to my unceasing amazement).

24 comments:

Boghie said...

What I feel is especially funny is that President Bush has repeatedly taken actions on behalf of Obama during the transition period.

Actions that are very unpopular.

Now, to include demanding the second half of the bailout money.

Obama wants it, but it is politically dangerous. So, Bush will make the moves...

Anonymous said...

Welcome back Engram.

Maybe you can share your thoughts in another article sometime about the current economic stimulus plans, and their long term impact (pro or con). It appears that Obama may be breaking new ground in terms of deficit as as % of GDP.

A regular reader

Boghie said...

Anonymous (Regular Reader),

The time to run deficits is now.

We should not have been running deficits from 2005 - 2007. We were flush with a high revenue stream - and still managed to run an annual deficit. It was obvious that President Bush was gradually reducing the growth of outlays, but...

joe six-pack said...

I certainly hope that you are correct about President-elect Obama being more moderate than what he appeared. I am concerned about how he will place the U.S. on the strategic defensive. No more offensive, unpopular wars. In a way, I can't blame him. However, this war will not be won by allowing state sponsored terrorism to continue. Maybe he has another way, but toppling those governments will become obvious when the first WMD is successfully deployed.

Anonymous said...

It does give a small bit of satisfaction to see that the Change we Hope for may possibly be Bush III or at worst, Clinton II.

But, though many of Obama's statements and appointments recently have brought a sigh of relief from Conservatives, I'm not sure it's good to be happy that our CinC lied through his teeth continuously to get elected. I do believe though that most Obamatons will laud whatever decisions their Dear Leader makes and not even consider what he might have said in the campaign and in the past.

Engram - Don't Stop!!!!

Mark in Portland

Freedomnow said...

Of course Obama hasnt been sworn in yet, so we cant really say what his policies will be.

The one thing that is clear is that he cant be trusted for what he says. While he poses articulately, he speaks without sincerity. No one knows what he will do because he only says what he thinks will make him popular. Integrity is not a strong point for him.

The Left is in a pinch because they dont know what to make of the man who many considered to have betrayed them.

http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=42150

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/GinnyE/gG5NGk

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/us_world/NYT_WH_team-Obama_won_t_deliver_on_promises.html

I am prepared to support or oppose him based on what he actually does.

Anonymous said...

Engram--glad to have you back. It certainly is amazing what Obama has done so far. I guess it shows that he may have more substance that I gave him credit for. Many of the liberal ideals are so pie in the sky that thoughtful people (even former liberals) have to abandon or modify them due to reality. I suppose that is what he is doing now.

pez said...

Hi Engram,

I second that! Don't stop blogging! We need to hear from non-partisan rationalists!

thanks for your last couple of years of work!

Red S Tater said...

Hi Engram... it's a true sign of the war in Iraq becoming more and more a success when you have virtually no deaths to report and nothing to track... too bad the MSM missed it.


Obama and the Democrat controlled congress is just getting warmed up my friend... run the numbers on how much they have spent in their first few days alone... Obama has made us less safe with his reversal of existing security measures and there is no sign anything they are doing will actually help the economy.
Obama didn't get to be the most liberal member of congress by being a moderate.

Anonymous said...

"President-elect Barack Obama said Friday his administration would not compromise its ideals to fight terrorism."

That seems exactly right to me. Obama would have to compromise his ideals to fight, not only terrorists, but any foreigner.

PiltdownMan said...

Engram,

With just more than 10 days into the presidency of "The One", with Tim Geitner as the Tax Man, ACORN on the list of stimulus funding recipients, details of foreign funds flowing into the Clinton coffers, etc...

Are you still drinking the Obama kool-aid?

Red S Tater said...

You know I love ya Engram but I'm wondering if YOU are living in the real world now...

btw- there were over 150 military killed in Afghanistan during "the One's" first week in office... but strangely not a peep from the left and the media (same thing).

Warpoet said...

engram,

I made a brief reference to this article when I finally updated my blog today:

here

I've no intention of advertising here in the future, and I doubt you'll even read it, but it's not my style to mention someone by name without at least letting them know about it.

William Jockusch said...

I don't know, it looks to me like Obama commutes routinely between the real world and some strange alien planet.

The reports you cite are indeed encouraging. But some reports of what is in the Obama-supported stimulus give me pause. Examples:

one
two

Anonymous said...

from Garth

I miss your posts, Engram, not just the information but the attitude, even where we disagree. You inspired and informed me during the war against AQI and you were dead on against the MSM's concerted effort to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

I'd love to hear your current outlook on the economy. For me at least, the source of my pessimism wasn't the MSM (they're most useful as a contrarian indicator.) It was a reaction to what I saw around me, like bizarre RE prices, unprecedented ponzi lending schemes, and debt-fueled consumerism gone mad. Like our near-worship of wealth for it's own sake, valuing "success" by over the top hedonistic consumption no matter how reckless, frivolous or venal the source. The national Lotto craze is just the most obvious symbol of our insanity.

People used to take pride saying "I may not have much but I earned it." The current cycle will push us back in that direction, IMHO.

Our economy is an organic entity because is it just a facet of our society as a whole. For each of us our businesses, jobs, investments and spending are engrained within and inseparable from our our expectations and understandings--our fears and aspirations--in our daily lives. There is really no separate "economy." Our decisions about working, investing, buying and spending are simply how we live each day.

And we all feed, or feed off of, each other in a virtuous or vicious cycle. We share, or infect, our neighbors with our outlook and values. The net sum of interactions--in the form of individual arms length economic transactions--is always cycling, like everything else in the universe. Our own personal, individual economic experiences in each of these transactions adjust our attitudes far more than the media can ever hope to. They just ride the wave. They are, after all, just reporters.

For me, the excess at the top of the mania was a sign we were about to head back where we came from. Now we are on the way. No one knows how far we will fall in this manic depressive cycle. If you put a gun to my head I would say we are nowhere near the bottom.

William Jockusch said...

I am getting
more and more concerned about Obama.

Anonymous said...

William,

It is indeed scary. When Engram posted about historical ratios of debt to GDP he cited government debt, not private debt. I accept the analysis of Roubini and Taleb that historically extreme ratios of private debt to GDP got us in this jam. Our economy was heavily over-leveraged and speculative.

Now government debt to GDP is balooning from TARP and porkulus with a shrinking GDP. This will get worse before it gets better.

To be fair, Engram usually discussed how our deficits stack up to the rest of the world. My impression is we're still substantially better off and will be for some time. As I mentioned a year ago decoupling was a fanciful notion, now demolished. Hence the substantial recovery of the dollar in the international flight to (relative) safety.

Likewise, when it comes to our mountain of bad debt, it looks like we're facing a few trillion while the EU is in double digits.

Garth

Anonymous said...

Ultima Online Gold, UO Gold, crestingwait
buy uo gold
buy uo gold
buy uo gold
buy uo gold
buy uo gold
buy uo gold
buy uo gold
buy uo gold
buy uo gold
buy uo gold
lotro gold
wow gold
warhammer gold
buy aoc gold
buy aoc gold
buy aoc gold
buy aoc gold
buy aoc gold
buy aoc gold
buy aoc gold
Age of Conan Gold, AOC Gold

William Jockusch said...

I think we have a BIG problem with Obama.

Obama now wants the US to participate in Durban 2

For an idea of what Durban 1 was like, see here. Warning -- racist, antisemitic, genocidal content.

Gateway Pundit on Durban

Anonymous said...

March 14th. I give up, you'll be off my main list of bookmarks.

Thanks for all the good stuff I found here.

All the best going forward....

Bye.

Cliff said...

It is now the end of March. I wonder if you still feel the same way about Obama?

Anonymous said...

喝花酒
酒店喝酒
暑假打工
寒假打工
酒店小姐
酒店兼職
禮服店
酒店經紀
酒店兼差
酒店
酒店經紀人
酒店現領
酒店經紀爆米花
酒店經紀

酒店打工
酒店上班
假日打工
台北酒店經紀
酒店pt
酒店pt
酒店應酬
粉味
酒店經紀PRETTY GIRL
酒店經濟
酒店經濟
打工兼差

dyangelo said...

hello
for a erectile dynsfuntion the cure is Viagra Online
because theres no other medication so effective like this pill it will get you like a rocket for several hours im my personal case it give me 3 hours of erection its amazing magical use it and realise its power

酒店上班請找艾葳 said...

艾葳酒店經紀是合法的公司工作環境高雅時尚,無業績壓力,無脫秀無喝酒壓力,高層次會員制客源,工作輕鬆,可日領現領
一般的酒店經紀只會在水水們第一次上班和領薪水時出現而已,對水水們的上班安全一點保障都沒有!艾葳酒店經紀公司的水水們上班時全程媽咪作陪,不需擔心!只提供最優質的酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店打工環境、上班條件給水水們。心動嗎!? 趕快來填寫你的酒店上班履歷表

水水們妳有缺現領高薪的工作嗎、想要兼職、有缺錢的煩腦嗎?想到日本留學缺錢嗎?想找看看傳播妹的工作??想要擁有高時薪又輕鬆的賺錢的方法,酒店的工作?,想要輕鬆的假日打工,假日兼職賺錢的機會嗎??想實現夢想卻又缺錢沒錢嗎!??
艾葳酒店台北酒店經紀招兵買馬!!徵專業的酒店打工,酒店上班想要去酒店的水水,想要短期日領,酒店日領,禮服酒店,制服店,酒店經紀,ktv酒店,便服店,禮服店,酒店小姐,酒店經紀人,
等相關服務 幫您快速的實現您的夢想~!!

艾葳酒店經紀公司提供專業的酒店經紀, 酒店上班小姐,八大行業,酒店兼職,傳播妹,或者想要打工兼差打工,兼差,八大行業,酒店兼職,想去酒店上班, 日式酒店,便服店,制服酒店,ktv酒店,禮服店,整天穿得水水漂漂的,還是想去制服店日領上班小姐,水水們如果想要擁有打工工作、晚上兼差工作酒店打工假日兼職兼職工作兼差打工兼差晚上兼差工作酒店工作酒店上班酒店打工兼職兼差兼差工作酒店上班等,想了解酒店相關工作特種行業內容,想兼職工作日領假日兼職兼差打工、或晚班兼職想擁有鋼琴酒吧又有保障的工作嗎???又可以現領請找專業又有保障的艾葳酒店經紀公司!